The Impact of Grief on a Mom’s Heart with Christina Schuetz, Sylvia’s Mom

In this heartfelt conversation, Christina Schuetz shares her profound journey of grief following the loss of her daughter, Sylvia, who battled congenital heart disease. Christina discusses the impact of this loss on her mental health, including struggles with PTSD, depression, and anxiety. She emphasizes the importance of community, faith, and open communication in navigating grief, and how these experiences have inspired her to write a book aimed at helping others through their own grief journeys. Christina's story is one of resilience, hope, and the ongoing process of healing.

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Transcript

greg buffkin (00:00)
Well, hi everybody and welcome back for a new episode. I'm Greg Buffkin and on today's episode, I'll be talking with Christina Schuetz. She shares the story of her precious sweet daughter, Sylvia, and her battle with congenital heart disease at only eight months of age. After losing Sylvia, Christina shares candidly about her struggle with PTSD, depression, anxiety,

and at one point becoming suicidal in her grief. You'll hear about how God stepped into that dark hole with her and rescued her. Following a long season of healing, God has restored hope and purpose in her life and inspired her to author a brand new book that we'll be talking about during our conversation a little later on. And now, here's my conversation with Christina.

Christina Schuetz (00:57)
30 miles north of Detroit.

August, like the third week of August.

greg buffkin (01:08)
Christina, welcome to our podcast. It's so good to have you with us today.

Christina Schuetz (01:14)
Thank you, sir. I'm so happy to be with you, Greg.

greg buffkin (01:17)
Well, I am really glad that we could finally connect. It has been about a three or four month long challenge to finally make this happen, hadn't it?

Christina Schuetz (01:27)
It has and that is sort of a testimony to how my life has gone. I feel like there's a lot of obstacles in trying to get my story out, but people like you provide opportunities for the story to get out and I'm so thankful.

greg buffkin (01:44)
Well, I appreciate your willingness to let people into your life and into your story because I firmly believe that as we share our stories, it helps us in the healing process. But I think it also allows people that are listening to be able to connect at a heart level. It's one thing to hear information about grief, about

things that you can do to help yourself and to understand that journey. But it's another, I think, when we can engage with each other's because it just takes it to a whole different level.

Christina Schuetz (02:21)
I couldn't agree more. I think when you hear.

how someone feels and you, it resonates with you. my gosh, I've felt the same way. I have truly viscerally felt this feeling and it felt so lonely at the time. But then you hear someone else's story and you hear that they have felt those feelings. It is a gift from God. It is a gift from each other.

greg buffkin (02:31)
Yeah.

Christina Schuetz (02:51)
as a community of grievers. And I think it's so important to keep talking, to keep telling these stories because it is not a common community we are in. It is rare to lose a child. It is not common. So I think we have to keep talking so that we can keep reminding each other we are not alone.

greg buffkin (03:12)
Yeah, couldn't agree more.

And what I would like to give you an opportunity to do before we go any further into that aspect of our conversation is just if you would like a minute or two just to share with our listeners a little bit about yourself, Christina, and anything personal, your family life, your marriage, anything like that, just take a minute or two and you have the platform.

Christina Schuetz (03:38)
Absolutely. So thank you for the opportunity because I do truly love my life. I love my family. And so any opportunity to talk about them, I get excited. I am married to my high school sweetheart we met when we were 14 years old and started dating. We were best friends before we started dating at 17 years old and actually

We are two days away from our dating anniversary, which will be 19 years. 19 years, yes, it's crazy to think because we were just kids when we started dating. And then we are 14 years. We are a couple days away from our 14 year wedding anniversary. Thank you. And I just, I

greg buffkin (04:04)
Oh, 19? Wow.

congratulations.

Christina Schuetz (04:28)
I feel like it is so rare not only to be so in love with your spouse after this long, but the divorce rate amongst grieving parents is 85%. So the fact that we are still so in love and we are best friends still and don't let me fool you. We have had

some hard times, especially since losing our child. However, we have chosen each other. We have chosen to fight. We have chosen to give ourselves to each other per our vows through it all. So I am, I'm blessed to be married to my best friend. And from that marriage, I have an 11 year old, beautiful, freckled redhead.

greg buffkin (05:01)
Of course.

Christina Schuetz (05:26)
She did not get her red hair from me. I wish she would have. I wish I had the red hair she has. However, Lillian Eve is a force to be reckoned with. She won her yearbook cover contest and she is an incredible artist. She did not get that from me. She is an incredible singer. She did not get that from me. And she has been through a lot because she

withstood the loss of her sister. So she was two-ish when our daughter, our second daughter passed away. So she is a very old soul who has withstood the trauma of sibling loss, which is a whole thing in and of itself. It's a very difficult path to go through.

greg buffkin (06:15)
Absolutely is.

Christina Schuetz (06:25)
It has made her mature in so many ways, but in so many ways that I wish it didn't have to make her mature. I wish she could have way more of her childhood back that she was robbed of. However, I'm so thankful that she has just gone through this loss with so much.

greg buffkin (06:31)
Of course.

Christina Schuetz (06:46)
maturity and ease and I won't say ease grace. Grace is what I mean. She has handled it so gracefully and it has fed her empathy for other people. And then two months after our daughter passed away, we found out we were pregnant and that was a huge shock. It was a huge surprise. However,

greg buffkin (06:52)
Sure.

Yeah.

Christina Schuetz (07:12)
and we can talk about this later. It was definitely ordained by the Lord, because it in more than one way saved my life. And we were, became pregnant with our son, my little prince, my little knight in shining armor, and his name is Rowan Walter, and he is seven years old and, is just

greg buffkin (07:14)
Yeah.

Hehehe.

Christina Schuetz (07:34)
the biggest mama's boy in the world, which I think God knew I needed. And he's lovely. He's lovely. And we live in North St. Michigan on a small, we have five acres and I have 20 chickens and they are my constant daily therapy. I love them so much. That's my favorite thing that I do is

greg buffkin (07:36)
There's... There is nothing wrong with that.

I bet.

Wow.

Christina Schuetz (07:59)
Being a little chicken farmer.

greg buffkin (08:00)
A little chicken farmer, how about that? My grandparents were farmers and they raised chickens as well.

Christina Schuetz (08:07)
It's such a joy. I can't explain every time I pick up an egg, I have this thrill go through my body. I'm like, oh my goodness, I cannot believe that I helped develop this one egg. And getting 10 to 15 of them daily, it just does my heart so much good. And every single one of them has a name. I've named every single chicken.

greg buffkin (08:23)
No.

Of course.

Christina Schuetz (08:36)
And I just, love it so much. So it was my dream to, to live on some property and have chickens. Cause that's how I grew up. I grew up on 30 acres and, ⁓ I've had the best parents in the world. I'm still very close to them. They live about 25 minutes away from me. Thank God, because they have sustained our family in a lot of ways through, ⁓ the past decade. So.

greg buffkin (08:46)
Well.

Yeah.

Christina Schuetz (09:03)
I just wanted to mimic the life I had as a child as much as I could, but also make it my own. And I'm so thankful for what I have.

greg buffkin (09:14)
Yeah, not very many people that you meet these days can say that. they really do, they love their childhood and they would love to replicate that in their own lives and with their own families. There are probably a lot more of them out there. It's just more often you hear about the ones who want to forget their childhood, which is so unfortunate.

Christina Schuetz (09:28)
Mm-hmm.

greg buffkin (09:39)
You know, I do want to circle back to something that you said a few minutes ago, because I think it's something that a lot of parents fear after they lose a child. They hear the statistics about failed marriages after and the aftermath of the death of a child.

I understand the statistics that you quoted because those statistics have been around for, I think, since the 1970s. The truth of the matter is those statistics came from a journalist who published an article about that. And when she was questioned about her sources,

She never did provide them. And that was the first information that really was published about divorce rates with bereaved parents. In the interim, over the last 40 or 50 years, there have been a number of studies that have come out that actually support the opposite. We know now that the statistics for

Christina Schuetz (10:37)
Yeah.

greg buffkin (10:42)
bereaved parents as far as the divorce rate ranges from 14 to 16 percent, which is a lot more encouraging ⁓ because you know that's even less than the divorce rate far below the average but even within the Christian community. And I think that probably speaks to

Christina Schuetz (10:51)
Yeah, so much more.

greg buffkin (11:06)
what we know to be trauma bonds. It occurs in combat with soldiers who share traumatic experiences together and you hear about those bonds that last for a lifetime. So I think that it also speaks to the fact that if the marriage is already on solid footing and the way that I look at that is if

If God is the foundation of that marriage, then I think it just strengthens the marriage when you go through something like that, as horrible as it is. I think if the marriage already has a crack in the foundation, that's when I think some of those statistics come into play because, you know, it does affect

a mom and dad so dramatically that sometimes it just sends them in the opposite direction. And I didn't want to come across as correcting you, Christina, but

Christina Schuetz (12:08)
No,

no, I don't take it that way at all. Yeah.

greg buffkin (12:11)
But I

just want to make sure that people who are maybe in an early season of grief today that are listening, if you've heard those statistics and you're worried about your own marriage, I just would like to encourage you with statistics that are a lot more encouraging and supportive.

Christina Schuetz (12:29)
I think that is so important because I hadn't heard that. So I think it's so important to have correct data. And I'm so thankful that you brought that up because I didn't know that. And I do think there is an element of foundational, a huge element of foundational strength. And in my belief, as well as yours, it's God is the foundation and

I also think a huge foundational support in a situation like this is friendship because at the end of the day, if you, there's, there's aspects of a marriage that are based on friendship and there's based, there's aspects of a marriage that's based on romance. And one thing is way harder.

greg buffkin (13:16)
Absolutely.

Christina Schuetz (13:21)
to sustain. Romance is way harder to sustain through hard times and friendship is easier to sustain through hard times because we are much more forgiving to our friends than we are to romantic partners. So if you have a friendship with your spouse, we are way more willing to give.

grace and give forgiveness for the things that are difficult for us to deal with. And so I think having a friendship with your spouse is super foundational to really hard times. ⁓ And I'm so thankful that I am best friend, like he is my best friend. I love him so much beyond. I think he's very attractive. I think he's a hottie totty.

greg buffkin (13:56)
Yeah, I...

Christina Schuetz (14:07)
I love him so much. think he's the most attractive man I've ever seen. I'm so thankful for that aspect of our relationship. But that doesn't sustain the hard times. What sustains our hard times is our friendship and this bond that we have that beyond any reasonable doubt, we are always going to have each other's back. And I think that is so important to know that it is so

so foundational for hard times. When you say in good times and in bad, and good times is when the romance is going to be easy and bad times is when the romance is going to be hard. And there's no badder and I'm a former English teacher and I know that's improper English. So, but there's no badder time than if you lose a child together. There's no worse

greg buffkin (14:53)
Yeah, but it's fitting.

Christina Schuetz (15:03)
fate for a marriage than burying a child together. So if you don't have that foundational truth as friends, it is going to be so, so difficult to sustain that trust, especially if you're very different. So Evan and I are very different. I'm an extrovert. He's an introvert. I'm talkative. He is quiet. He has even joked the reason why he

greg buffkin (15:17)
Yeah.

Christina Schuetz (15:29)
married me was so I could be the person who talked to everyone that every social event we've ever gone to and he could just stand in the corner and it would be easy for him to get through. I'm emotional, he is practical. I am, I think of my feelings, he thinks on analysis. So it is, we are very different. So we

greg buffkin (15:34)
For him.

Christina Schuetz (15:56)
Therefore, grieve very differently. And that was the crux of what made our marriage very difficult after we lost our daughter is because we are inherently very different people, which most of the time is a strength in our marriage because he brings what I can't and I bring what he can't. However, when you're grieving differently and you're trying to find each other,

greg buffkin (16:08)
Yeah.

Christina Schuetz (16:27)
in this haze of sadness, this haze of what just happened to our lives. It is very difficult and I can see why a lot of marriages or some marriages fail. However, I can also see how they can get stronger and thank God we're on the ladder.

greg buffkin (16:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'm glad that you guys are and I hear the passion in your voice about that. Those are some very sage words and while we're on that subject, I'm glad that you shared that, Christina, because as you said, men and women agree very differently. so when parents lose a child, it's not uncommon for

for one spouse to see how the other is grieving and if they're not grieving the same way sometimes it's easy to put ourselves in a place of of judging and wondering now why isn't she or why isn't he grieving the way I am are they really not grieving and sometimes one spouse will get angry or feel resentful towards the other because

They're not doing it the same way. But I think you and I both would encourage couples that are listening today, or if it's the husband or the wife listening separately, give each other the grace to grieve differently. You don't have to understand it. It's just a fact. But give each other a lot of grace.

But then do be purposeful and grieving together and talking about how you both feel and talking about how you both are being affected by it, whether it's the mental, the physical, spiritual, emotional, because for most of us, it's all of that.

Because if your mate doesn't know what you're experiencing, it's difficult for them to understand, and it's difficult for them to offer as much grace. Does that make sense? Would you agree with that?

Christina Schuetz (18:35)
would totally agree with that. think this is a huge fundamental concern amongst mates who are grieving the loss of a child. We like to think that the way we do things is the right way as humans. It's it's a nature of habit to think that the way we do something is correct. So

greg buffkin (18:53)
Of course.

Christina Schuetz (19:01)
I know for me, I personally felt like I was grieving out loud and that was the right way to grieve for a while. I felt that way. My partner, Evan, is much more introverted and he was grieving in a quiet way. And at some point I felt like, are you not grieving? It seemed like he was not grieving.

greg buffkin (19:26)
Right, right, right.

Christina Schuetz (19:28)
So that made me feel lonely. That made me feel like I was grieving our daughter alone when in reality I just needed to be more empathetic, which is hard to say because I'm a very empathic person. So it's hard to imagine being more empathetic, but that was a point in my life where I needed to exercise more empathy and realize he doesn't have to grieve out loud.

He can grieve quietly. What I needed to do is to communicate to him and say, hey, I'm feeling lonely in my grief and I need to hear your sadness. You don't have to share it with anyone else. You don't have to share it on social media. You don't have to share it with anyone else. But I, as your partner, I need to hear it because I need to hear that I'm not alone. And that is something that took me

a while to learn. And I also think that society sort of puts a lot of pressure on men when it comes to grief, that it should look a certain way. Anger is a very safe emotion for men because it's a masculine emotion. So it allows men to feel like they can express themselves in a masculine way.

greg buffkin (20:44)
right.

Christina Schuetz (20:52)
crying and you know, tears and laying down on your closet floor, which are all things I've done, is a very feminine way to grieve. And so I don't think we as a whole, as a society, we give men a lot of room to grieve in a way that would feel very copasetic and very like relatable to women.

Because we don't allow men that right. So, yeah.

greg buffkin (21:22)
Yeah, I think that's very accurate.

Yeah, and you know, you guys, if we step back in time a bit, it was nine years ago, I believe, that you guys lost Sylvia. you know, just so that our listeners have some perspective, she was born, no problems with birth, but it was shortly thereafter, I believe you shared with me, that the doctors discovered that she had

Christina Schuetz (21:34)
Yes.

greg buffkin (21:51)
congenital heart disease. that right? Is that accurate?

Christina Schuetz (21:54)
So I actually found out at my 20 week anatomy scan that she was sick. ⁓ I will never forget the words from the doctor as he's pressing into my belly with the ultrasound. He said, you have an older daughter, right? And I said, yes. And he said, is she healthy? And with those three words, is she healthy?

greg buffkin (22:01)
Okay.

Christina Schuetz (22:20)
everything crashed into my body and my soul and I knew instantly when he said is she healthy that meant Sylvia wasn't that meant the baby in my belly was not and it was terrifying Greg I and I I was alone and I I was told to go get the scan after my

greg buffkin (22:31)
Yeah.

I can't imagine hearing those words.

Christina Schuetz (22:49)
gender reveal scan, we couldn't see her heart as well as we needed to. So I was sent to get the scan later that week and we were not thinking it was a health thing. We were just thinking it was a logistical thing. So I went alone. Let me say to your listeners, if you are ever told to go get an additional scan, do not go with

out your partner or without some other care individual that can be there with you to be an emotional support.

greg buffkin (23:24)
Yeah,

yeah, good words.

Christina Schuetz (23:27)
Because that was very, we just thought it was a logistical thing. But that was the moment where we were told there's something wrong with her heart and I was alone. And I remember just texting Evan and saying there's something wrong with our baby's heart. And we could not believe that of all of the things, Greg.

For some reason, the heart is the scariest that I could ever imagine because it is literally the central machine of the body. So if something's wrong with the heart, something's wrong with everything else.

greg buffkin (23:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and you know when you're a parent expecting the birth of a child, you know one of the last things that you would expect to hear is that your child has heart disease. That's something that we typically associate with being significantly older. You know, it does happen to younger people, but it's just not something that we are, that we're prepared for in any way.

Christina Schuetz (24:29)
Yes.

greg buffkin (24:37)
to hear about a baby still in the womb, right?

Christina Schuetz (24:41)
Of course, yeah, there was, and we have no familial history with heart disease on either side. There is absolutely no heart defects on either side. There's no heart disease on either side that we would ever would have thought would impact a pregnancy. And so as time went on and she grew in my womb, there were a few things that happened.

One, her diagnoses got more and more intense. It was not just, it started with a hole in her heart. And that's bad enough. That's scary enough. A lot of parents will go through that process with their kids and it will be scary and it will be difficult. And I don't want to take away from that. However, as time went on and she got bigger and we had weekly scans. And at one point I was on a table for four hours getting

greg buffkin (25:20)
Right, right.

Christina Schuetz (25:39)
My belly pressed, my belly was bruised after four hours of ultrasounds. And we, it was terrifying. And we came out of that scan with six diagnoses, six heart defects. And as time went on, the news kept getting worse and it kept getting more dire. And it was that at that appointment,

greg buffkin (25:44)
I can only imagine.

Mmm.

Christina Schuetz (26:07)
that we sat down and we were told.

that we had the option to terminate the pregnancy.

greg buffkin (26:15)
gosh.

Christina Schuetz (26:16)
And the other option was to get an amniocentesis to see if there was any genetic, you know, issues going on beyond. And there was never a question. Evan and I just looked at each other and the geneticist left the room and he looked at me. And one of the things that they were worried about was Down syndrome because the combination of her heart defects

greg buffkin (26:24)
Right.

Christina Schuetz (26:43)
could lead to Down syndrome. And Evan just looked at me and he, I will never forget in the most dire circumstances, falling in love with my husband more than I already was because I looked at him and I said, if, what if, you know, what if she has Down syndrome? What if she has a hard life? What if she's sick?

greg buffkin (26:57)
Hmm.

Christina Schuetz (27:09)
all of her life. What if she dies? And Evan looked at me and said, if any of that happens, we will make sure she has the best life while she's here. it, yeah. Mary the best man, Craig. He is the best man. I will never forget those words. I get goosebumps just thinking about it because that is the man.

greg buffkin (27:23)
well, you married a good man.

Christina Schuetz (27:38)
I saw in him when he was a 17 year old boy.

greg buffkin (27:42)
Well, and he lived it.

Christina Schuetz (27:45)
And he lived in, he still does.

greg buffkin (27:47)
I'm sure he does.

It's an unthinkable, unspeakable trauma for a husband and wife to have to endure. And when you get that kind of a diagnosis, you know, in some respects, I suspect that you're doing, you're experiencing some level of grieving at that point in time, although not knowing what the

prognosis was and I'm sure that that came later, but Sylvia, I believe you shared with me lived for about eight months. Is that that accurate? Yeah.

Christina Schuetz (28:24)
She lived

for just shy, a couple days shy of 10 months. Yeah. No, it's okay.

greg buffkin (28:28)
Ten months, okay, I'm sorry.

So, you know, even though I know that by that point in time, you knew that things were not good and that it's probably not going to end well. But when it happens, even though you've sort of had time to somewhat mentally prepare, it still doesn't help, it? Because you still experience separation from your child.

And we know that Sylvia is in heaven and that you will always be connected with her because her DNA lives in you today. that separation is not permanent. And I'm thankful that that is the case for you and Evan. But you know, as believers, sometimes I think there is a perception that

when people look at us who aren't believers, they think that, well, a couple of things. Well, if they're believers, then why didn't God step in and stop this? Why did God allow that to happen? they think, and sometimes I think in the church, maybe this is more the case, that when we have a relationship with Jesus,

that bad things like that don't happen. But that's not true. It's not true. And I know that you shared with me that you had a real battle with not just depression, but with PTSD and with anxiety. And at some point on your grief journey, you became suicidal.

But God didn't leave you in those moments. It was very real. We live in a fallen world and bad things happen. But we had Jesus to go through those things with us. I want you to talk a little bit about that aspect of your journey, Christina, because whether they have shared it with anybody else or not, whether they have even maybe admitted it to themselves or not, there are people listening today.

Moms and potentially dads too, who are right in the middle of one of those battles and maybe they haven't talked with anybody about it and maybe they feel like it's, you know, I shouldn't be going through this. Maybe it's a sign of weakness. Maybe I don't pray enough. Maybe I'm not, you know, I don't read scripture enough. There's all this list of things and it's a tool that the enemy

uses very effectively against us. So let's just talk a little bit about what that was like for you and how you moved from that place to a place of wholeness and being healthy again.

Christina Schuetz (31:09)
Well, thank you for that question because I think it's one of the most important things we could talk about today. Let me start by saying I don't know that there is wholeness for me right now. I am still on a mental health journey, but the important part of that is acknowledging still on it and I'm still seeking help. That is the important part.

greg buffkin (31:34)
There's such wisdom in that. I just want to say that it is so wise to acknowledge that you can't do it alone and that you need help, whether it's a counselor, whether it's medication or a combination of both. So thank you for your openness to share that.

Christina Schuetz (31:35)
I... Yeah. ⁓ thank you. ⁓

I can't.

you're so welcome, Greg. And I will share it is I am in weekly therapy. I have been for years and I'm on medication. I have been for years and I need that combination of things to stay stable. And that does not mean that I don't have hard days or hard weeks. I still do PTSD, grief, depression, anxiety.

They are giants by themselves. And then you combine them together with the nuance of losing your child. It is a horrific giant of a mess of mental health struggles to get through. And the thing about losing a child is it doesn't go away.

greg buffkin (32:28)
Yes, they are.

Christina Schuetz (32:53)
because you don't just lose, I didn't just lose Sylvia at 10 months. I am going to celebrate Lillian graduating from elementary school tomorrow and I should be celebrating Sylvia moving on from third to fourth grade tomorrow and I don't get to do that. So it's this constant life of loss.

which a lot of people don't realize about losing a child. When people say you should get over someone's death, I don't believe that for anyone. don't even believe anyone should get over or have to get over a grandparent or a parent. However, we are biologically inclined to accept that loss because they are supposed to go before us.

but our kids aren't supposed to go before us. So we don't have a natural inclination.

greg buffkin (33:45)
Right.

Exactly. It's not

the natural order of things, is it? ⁓ So when it happens, that's another reason that I think it's so shocking to the entirety of who we are, because you don't have a child expecting to bury a child. You expect that that's what they will be doing at some point in time.

Christina Schuetz (33:55)
No.

greg buffkin (34:14)
And so it's a, you know, it's a messy process. There's nothing easy about that journey. And I'm so glad that you, that you said you don't get over it because sometimes people that, that are friends, sometimes family members, you know, they see some of the impact that the death of a child has on us.

They certainly don't see all of it. They only see what they can see on the surface. The vast majority of it lies beneath the surface. And you know that it's something that we have to deal with for, as you said, for a lifetime. We don't get over it. We have to learn and choose to get through it every day. And sometimes people

Christina Schuetz (34:57)
Yes.

greg buffkin (34:59)
Meaning well will say sometimes say things like, know, isn't it about time for you to get over this? You know, has it been it's been six months. I mean, you know, you need to get on with things. I hope you didn't hear those things, but Yeah, I

Christina Schuetz (35:14)
I did, Greg.

I'm writing a whole book about it, Greg.

greg buffkin (35:18)
Yeah, I hate that that happened to you. It happens all too often, you know, and I, you know, we just I want to encourage people to be careful about the words that they use. And, you know, if you're not sure what to say, it's OK not to say anything. It's OK just to offer the gift of your presence, isn't it?

Christina Schuetz (35:23)
It does.

will never forget.

Sylvia's funeral for a lot of reasons, but the two interactions, I had two interactions that were very negative. One was someone told me at least I still have Lillian.

greg buffkin (35:55)
Ooh, anytime you hear those two words at least, you know that what's coming is not going to be good.

Christina Schuetz (35:58)
out these.

Nope, at least. I literally, one of my most viral posts on my author social media is literally just a square meme that says no two words are more difficult to hear as a griever than the words at least. Because there's, they're so, again, they come from the best intentions, but what I struggle with

greg buffkin (36:20)
Amen.

Christina Schuetz (36:30)
And what I'm writing about in my book is we need to do better. Best intentions aren't good enough. We need to learn. We have to learn from each other and learn from each other's pain. And we have to do better for each other because grief is universal. It's a universal experience. So why do we not do better at learning how to help each other?

greg buffkin (36:50)
It is.

Christina Schuetz (36:56)
with it, especially in the church. Because, and that's something I'm so passionate about and what my whole book is about is trying to help believers in the church love each other better through grief because that's what Jesus did. And the other thing I heard was, I'm so glad Lillian won't remember this. And I remember looking at the person and saying,

greg buffkin (36:59)
Yes.

Yes, he did.

That helped. ⁓ gee.

Christina Schuetz (37:23)
hope she remembers this. I hope she remembers her sister. I hope she remembers this pain because even though it's going to be so hard for her to carry this pain, it is going to be a foundational way that she learns to love other people. And the two positive experiences that I will never forget, they were my husband's prior, or it was his

current boss at the time and his previous boss. And these were very intelligent, very business oriented men who you would not think would have a ton of emotional connection to what was going on. Both of them separately in line in front of my daughter's casket simply came

kissed me on the cheek, gave me a hug, and moved on. And I will never forget how much that meant to me because them not saying anything said everything.

greg buffkin (38:21)
Hmm.

Well said, Christina. Because there is nothing that anyone else can say that's going to make you feel better or that's going to take away the pain or the discomfort or the trauma that you're feeling. But they will remember what you just described. They'll remember that you showed up and they'll remember just whether it's that hug or a kiss.

just the fact that, that they offered their presence that you is it's amazing how far and what an impact that makes. but sometimes.

Sometimes saying something just because you feel like you need to say something, unfortunately, can just make it worse.

Christina Schuetz (39:16)
I agree and I think we have to go back to Jesus. I always try. I always try to go back to Jesus. I don't do it well all of the time because I'm a human and I'm a sinner.

greg buffkin (39:28)
Yeah,

most of us don't.

Christina Schuetz (39:31)
But when I go back and I look at how Jesus did grief and Jesus did empathy within grief, and I have to go back to Lazarus, didn't say a darn thing, Greg. Jesus wept is a whole Bible verse. He just wept because even though he knew in his infinite omniscient wisdom,

greg buffkin (39:42)
Yep.

It is indeed.

Christina Schuetz (39:59)
that that best friend of his was about to walk out of that grave in a few minutes. He still felt the impact of loss because he felt the impact of loss amongst his friends, amongst Lazarus sisters, and he knew how deeply they hurt, and he just wept.

greg buffkin (40:22)
Yeah and I think if I'm not mistaken I remember hearing at some point in time that the translation of that was not as accurate as it probably ought to be because it actually I think in the original kind of indicated that Jesus just broke down crying and to say he wept for you know for us in English that doesn't sound very profound you know what I mean but

Christina Schuetz (40:48)
Right. Yeah.

greg buffkin (40:51)
I think it's so important that God arranged for that to be recorded in Scripture, because as you said, Jesus knew that he was going to bring Lazarus back to life within just a few minutes of that moment. And so he could have been, you don't worry about it, you know, he's going to be back with us here very shortly, and they're going, what? That's crazy.

But even knowing that, he experienced the same emotions that we do, and he allowed other people to experience that. So I think it was just him giving us a glimpse of the heart of God, because it breaks God's heart when we lose a child. He loves that child more than we do. So, you know, I want people to understand that it is...

Christina Schuetz (41:36)
Yeah. Yeah.

greg buffkin (41:42)
Okay to experience all of these emotions and To be okay with that give you know give yourself the freedom to do you know to do that to walk through it? because if you will you you'll heal better and allow other people the freedom to do that as well and Having said that I do want to also circle back to something you said a minute ago, too that I think is so important

When you talked about getting, that you're still getting counseling, but that you're also taking medication. I did the same thing. And my wife and I went to counseling for about three and a half years after we lost Ryan. But about four or five months after we lost him, I was diagnosed with clinical depression. I was in the pharmaceutical industry. I talked about depression every

day with physicians and didn't even recognize the symptoms in myself. And I think too often in the Christian community, there are too many people that shun taking antidepressants or whatever that medication is that a physician prescribes because it means that you have a weak faith. It means you haven't prayed enough, you haven't read the Bible enough, you know, the list goes on and on and on. The fact of the matter is

Christina Schuetz (42:52)
Yeah.

greg buffkin (42:58)
if your liver was diagnosed with some disease form and there was a medication out there, more than likely the same people would take that medication. If our blood pressure is too high, we take blood pressure meds. If our cholesterol is too high, we take cholesterol meds because we know these things work. What we fail to acknowledge sometimes

is that our brain, just like our kidneys, just like our liver, just like our stomach, and many other organs of the body is an organ of the body, and it too can get sick with chemical imbalances. And sometimes it is a precipitating factor such as trauma or death, whatever it might be, that can trigger that imbalance.

it needs sometimes you just need a leg up it doesn't mean that you're to be on that medication for the rest of your life you may be but that's okay sometimes you're on life you're in a lifetime medication for blood pressure so I just I think it's important for the Christian community to support other people you know others in the Christian community when that happens and they

Christina Schuetz (44:02)
Mm-hmm.

greg buffkin (44:18)
If they're wrestling with the idea of should I take this or shouldn't I take it? I think it's important to do what's best for helping you get well.

Christina Schuetz (44:28)
I couldn't agree more. I'm obviously not a medical doctor, I'm not a psychologist, and I think it is important for every single person to seek out that professional help first and foremost. However, I will never forget. So, let me just sort of give you my, I like to joke and say my Christian resume. I went to a private Christian school from age three to

graduating high school. I went to a private Christian college for four years. I got my master, or not my master's, my bachelor's in English secondary education, and I got a double minor in speech and communication and biblical historicity and theology. And so I

study the Bible my whole life. I have taught Bible studies. I have written. I write for a Christian blog. So let's just say that my Christian resume on paper is thick. I will never forget the day I was teaching a Bible study at my church. And I

We broke up into small groups and I was just visiting each table and I had a woman literally say to me, you know, if you would have prayed harder, Sylvia would still be alive.

And Greg, I'm not a violent woman, but had there ever been a situation where I was very close to being a little bit violent, it would have been there. did. I was not. I removed myself from the situation. I walked out of my room and I lost it. I lost it in the hallway because I will never forget the feeling.

greg buffkin (46:05)
Mm.

Christina Schuetz (46:14)
of someone telling me essentially your faith wasn't strong enough, your faith wasn't good enough, you should not still feel sad because you didn't do enough. And it is the biggest lie the enemy could tell someone who is grieving, especially a grieving parent, because what we want to do as parents is protect our kids

And any time there is a death of a child, is always, always, I guarantee you, going to be parental guilt of some degree because we are innately wired to protect our kids. And if we lose a child, even if it is completely illogical part of us, we are going to blame ourselves. And so when you capitalize on that and you tell someone that

they didn't pray hard enough or their faith wasn't strong enough. And they have to use medication in order to sustain their mental health, not only for themselves, but for the rest of their family. I have two other kids that I have to show up for. And I don't just want to show up for them. I want to be good for them. I want to be my best for them.

greg buffkin (47:38)
course you do.

Christina Schuetz (47:38)
I want to give

them everything that I couldn't give Sylvia. So when you tell someone something like that, it can be so damaging and you are perpetuating a lie from the enemy and that is very, very dangerous. And we have to be so careful how we speak about faith in conjunction with outcome because it is not always A plus B equals C.

greg buffkin (48:03)
No, it's not a formula. And the reason that I'm convinced that people say things like that is because they've never walked in your shoes. If they had experienced what you and I have experienced, those words would have never come out of their mouths, but somehow in their freedom to do so.

They use words that are not just careless, but that are very harmful. So that's why we say be careful with the words that you use. And if you're not sure what words to use, don't use any. Yep.

Christina Schuetz (48:43)
Exactly. Give him a

kiss on the cheek. Give him a hug or literally now when I'm in line at any funeral procession, I literally hug the person and I say, I don't have any words because there's nothing I can say because that is honestly the best thing you can say to someone because it acknowledges whenever there's a death, there is a void.

We are supposed to feel this void because this is not our home. As great as earth can be sometimes, this is not where we're meant to be. But when we lose someone here, we are supposed to feel that void. We are supposed to feel the loss. That is the God-given design of what we are experiencing between heaven and earth right now.

greg buffkin (49:15)
Right.

Christina Schuetz (49:35)
So it is okay to acknowledge the void, but it is not okay to brush past it because it is completely designed by God for us to love people enough to miss them forever. And what a God-given gift that we have enough love still in our sinner hearts to love people beyond this world.

greg buffkin (49:50)
Yeah

Yeah, and there's a pretty commonly passed around phrase that deep love equals deep grief.

Christina Schuetz (50:11)
Yeah.

greg buffkin (50:11)
And you know, it's you don't realize, you don't realize it just how deep that is until you experience what what Christina is talking about. And, know, before we go today, Christina, I do want to give you an opportunity to talk about this book you've referenced a couple of times in our conversation. And you and I had talked about this several weeks ago. I want you to tell our listeners about the book.

I'm not sure if you're finished with it yet or not. I know that you were in process the last time we spoke. So just kind of bring us up to speed on that. Tell us the name of it and if it's not published yet, when you might expect it to be available and what was your inspiration for writing it and what do you hope to accomplish with it?

Christina Schuetz (50:57)
So I'm not finished with it yet, which I could say I was. I have been in process of writing it. I'm probably about three-fourths of the way through writing it. I was blessed with the opportunity to get a book deal a while ago and thought that it would be published much sooner. But this is just.

greg buffkin (51:00)
Okay.

Okay.

Christina Schuetz (51:24)
This is the journey I'm on and I want to be honest with your listeners. I had some mental health setbacks to do with my trauma and to do with my grief. And I also had some medical things going on with myself that actually reawakened my trauma with Sylvia because I actually almost passed away from a poor surgery done a couple years ago. So

greg buffkin (51:49)
gosh.

Christina Schuetz (51:50)
It was very traumatic for myself and for my kids and for my husband because I actually went into septic shock and nearly passed away. The recovery period was a few months. I had drains all over my body. I had a pick line and it was very reminiscent of some of the things Sylvia went through. So that sort of set me back.

greg buffkin (52:00)
no.

Christina Schuetz (52:15)
quite a bit in my PTSD journey because it was not just the loss of Sylvia anymore, the PTSD of everything she went through because we didn't get too much into it, but her medical process was very, very traumatic. I saw her stroke out. saw her get CPR. I saw her get paddles, the electric paddles on her chest.

as a baby, I saw her on ECMO. I mean, it was a very traumatic process of watching her die. And then I almost died myself with some of the similar things that she went through. So it really did set back my writing journey. However, I am getting back into it. And it is called Graceful Grief, colon.

responding to loss with the heart of Jesus. And it is all about Sylvia's journey, her sort of memoir, but also trying to aid and love Christians through the process of loving others through grief. Much of what we've talked about, how the church can often be a hurtful place to grieve instead of a helpful place in

greg buffkin (53:14)
Mm.

Christina Schuetz (53:36)
my sort of experience on top of my biblical studies and using scripture to definitely back up what I say. It's not just my opinion, but using the heart of Jesus and what Jesus did and how he responded and what scripture says about grief in order to help guide the church, Big C, to love others better.

greg buffkin (53:48)
Right.

Christina Schuetz (54:01)
within grief and I'm really praying and hoping that by Christmas, which is right around Sylvia's birthday, December 14th is her birthday, I'm really hoping that I'll be finished. And I am just, I'm so excited. I wrote my first book when I was two years old and I have been a writer ever since. I was an English teacher and a speech teacher.

greg buffkin (54:18)
wow.

Christina Schuetz (54:25)
And I thought that's what I was going to do my whole life. I thought I was going to teach other people how to write and other people how to speak. between my life experience and what the way God willed my life to go, I realized He was always prepping me to write and prepping me to speak. And so now I enjoy writing for... It's called thread.org.

and it's a Christian website and I have had some great articles through there and some social media parasols through there. And I am just so excited for my first book because I always knew I would write a book. I had no idea and I would have never wanted it to be about losing a child. ⁓ This is also a very super secret, Greg, you're one of the first to know I wrote a book for my husband for Father's Day.

greg buffkin (55:09)
Of course.

Christina Schuetz (55:19)
from Sylvia's perspective and it's all about how she's doing in heaven. It's called, I'm in heaven now daddy. so once that, that should be out actually in about a week. And so I'll share that with you when I can.

greg buffkin (55:21)
my gracious.

⁓ wow.

Yeah, please do. Because I think by the time that book is out, I can include that in your episode summary section for those who are listening. And I hope at some point when your other book is published that we can figure out a way to let people know about that. So we'll just need to stay in touch.

Christina Schuetz (55:43)
Awesome.

I'd love to come back

up. I mean, I have so much more to say. We could do a whole other episode.

greg buffkin (55:58)
I think you and I could probably,

we could probably talk the rest of the day I think. Yeah, we have a lot to share. But I really appreciate your transparency, so Christina, I think it's important that we let other people in to see the real us and the real journey, not just the...

Christina Schuetz (56:05)
I see.

greg buffkin (56:23)
not just the cleaned up version because there's nothing clean and pretty about grief. As we said earlier, it's quite messy and it's incredibly difficult. It's hard work. But as I know you would, if you're listening today,

And you don't know the hope and you don't have the, you don't have the, I guess the help that, that from other people and you don't have a relationship with, with the Lord and you're trying to carry this by yourself. We would encourage you to just take this to the Lord. Offer it to God in prayer.

and ask him to meet you where you are because he loves to do that and he will.

Christina Schuetz (57:08)
Mm-hmm. He meets you, like you said, where you are. And I think a lot of people's hesitation, especially in grief, trauma, depression, any mental health crisis that we're going through, I think we often feel like we have to clean it up before we go to God. And you look at every single...

greg buffkin (57:28)
Yeah, absolutely.

Christina Schuetz (57:34)
person in the Bible that is notable, the heroes of faith. And actually I have a tattoo for Sylvia that says the world was not worthy. ⁓

greg buffkin (57:44)
you shared that

with me and I wanted to bring it up, so thank you, because I forgot.

Christina Schuetz (57:52)
Yeah, and it's it's from the Heroes of Faith chapter because every hero of faith Abraham Noah Joseph Joseph especially poor Joseph every apothec every single notable person in the Bible Went through horrific trauma and they're in the Bible because because they went through the trauma

greg buffkin (57:55)
It's...

Yes.

Yes, they did.

Christina Schuetz (58:18)
and because they at the end clung to the cross and they didn't always do it perfectly. You don't have to do it perfectly. You don't have to do anything perfectly. The perfect part was already done by Jesus. That part is done.

greg buffkin (58:24)
Yeah.

Exactly. Yep.

And you don't have to, you don't have to try to sugar coat it or put a pretty face on it either because he already sees it. He knows what it is, but he, yes. And he can use your pain and he can use your journey and the trauma that you've been through. He can use that for good. And

Christina Schuetz (58:47)
He's your dad. He's your dad. Yep.

greg buffkin (59:03)
It's hard to think about that when you lose a child, but I have talked to too many people who have been in the same circumstances, who have experienced the worst, and they consistently share what God has done in the aftermath. Losing their child, was that good? No, of course it wasn't good. But can God take that and use it for good in my own life? Yes.

Can he use that for good in somebody else's life? Yes, he can. I've seen him do it over and over and over as you have and as you've testified to today. So thank you so much for letting us get some glimpses into the life of a mom who has been in that dark hole and who has shared how God got.

down into that dark hole with her and has brought her back to a place of restoring purpose and meaning and hope in her life. And we're just, we're very thankful for your openness to share all of that with us.

Christina Schuetz (1:00:09)
I'm so thankful for you, Greg, for giving a platform to people who need to tell their stories. Like I always say, Satan does not get to have my daughter's story. So anytime I get a platform, an opportunity to share Jesus' light through Sylvia, I'm so thankful to the person who gave me the opportunity. I'm

I'm thankful for you. And I'm sorry we're in this club together, but I'm thankful to know you.

greg buffkin (1:00:33)
Well, thank you. Yeah,

yeah, so am I. Well, thank you. Thank you so very much, Christina. And we will be waiting with anticipation about these books that are coming out.

Christina Schuetz (1:00:49)
I'm excited.

greg buffkin (1:00:50)
All right, well, it has been such a joy talking with you.