A Story of Faith, Hope and Love in Loss with Angie Ford-Green, Kevin’s Mom

In this hope filled conversation, author and speaker Angie Ford-Green shares her journey of grief after the loss of her son, Kevin in a surfing tragedy. She reflects on the profound impact of his life and death on her identity, her marriage, and her family. Angie emphasizes the importance of community, faith, and the need to embrace grief while also finding hope and purpose in life after loss. Through her personal experiences and insights, she offers encouragement to other grieving parents, reminding them that they are not alone and that healing is possible through the power and grace of Jesus Christ. We invite you to listen!

Most Recent Books:

• A Mother Like Me (A Story of Faith, Hope, and Love in Loss)
• Mothers Like Me ( Stories of Faith, Hope, and Love in Loss)

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Transcript

Speaker: 0:48

Well, hi everyone. It's Greg. Welcome back. And I'm really glad you decided to join us today because in this episode, you'll be hearing from Angie Ford Green as we sit down and talk about the tragic and unthinkable loss of her twenty-eight-year-old son Kevin to cardiac arrest while surfing off the coast of California. Angie's is a story of crushing pain and unspeakable loss, but it is also the story of how God steps into our brokenness and pain with us and begins to take all of those broken pieces and put them back together and make something beautiful out of them, if we will just let him. So here is my conversation with Angie. Well, Angie, welcome to our podcast. It's so great to have you with us today.

Speaker 2: 1:43

Thank you for the invitation, Greg. I'm really, really looking forward to this conversation.

Speaker: 1:48

Yeah, I have been too, Angie, and it's been a few weeks in the making because we've we've run into a couple of obstacles. I know that you weren't feeling well at one point. Then I think last week we tried it and there was a technical issue. So such is the life of people who do podcasts. But thank you for being patient and thank you for carving time out of your schedule to come and be our guest today.

Speaker 2: 2:14

Absolute blessing.

Speaker: 2:15

Yes. Well, listen, the uh the privilege is mine. And so what I would like for you to do, just up front, Angie, if you don't mind, just take a couple of minutes like I usually do with my guests and share anything personal that you would like people to know about you andor your family, and then we'll just kind of dive into your story.

Speaker 2: 2:38

Okay. Well, let's see. Our family is dynamic, passionate, can be messy sometimes. There's, you know, Bob and I and our three sons, you know, Eric, David, and Kevin. Kevin, you know, went off to heaven, you know, without us. So there's the four of us left, but we have amazing daughter-in-laws, we have eight grandchildren, seven great-grandchildren, and being, you know, called wife, mother, and meme, that's my name for my grandbabies.

Speaker: 3:15

Love it. Love it.

Speaker 2: 3:16

Just the best. It's the best blessing of my life, really. I always wanted to be married with children. That that was it. I was put on a a path of stardom, and I was uncomfortable with that as a young person. And all I wanted was to be a wife and a mom and a and a grandmother, you know. So family life is extremely important to me, always has been and always will be.

Speaker: 3:43

Well, those were great aspirations. And based on what you just shared, it's it's apparent that your family has really expanded, and and I'm sure that keeps you pretty busy in your retirement years.

Speaker 2: 3:59

Well, it does, except for you know, everybody, you know, they've got their families now, and so vibe really we just feel like we're on a perpetual honeymoon right now.

Speaker: 4:10

That is so cool.

Speaker 2: 4:11

Celebrating 60 years of marriage next June. We've been together since we're 15. So we're just enjoying our time, you know, both of us being retired at a young age. I was 54, he was 59 and a half, and so our love for each other was, you know, restored and rekindled. And right now we feel like we're 15 again. We really do. We can do anything we want whenever we want. That's an amazing point.

Speaker: 4:41

Wow. Well, hello, Bob. How are you? Good. Good. I wish our listeners could see, but they can only hear. So welcome to our podcast.

Speaker 2: 4:55

He's heading out to Rake Leave, so I just wanted him to say hi.

Speaker: 5:02

Well, I'm I'm glad that you poked your head in the door and said hello. It's really good to meet you. Yeah, nice meeting you too. All right. That was good timing. Okay, I think okay well, and I wanted to say too that I love that your grandchildren call you Mimi because that's what ours call my wife.

Speaker 2: 5:21

There's so many more memes now. It's really fun.

Speaker: 5:25

I know, I know. She she loves that name, and that was what her mom was called by our children.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Really? Well, mine came from our firstborn grandson. I wanted to be Grammy because I'm a musician. So I thought that would be fun, you know, to be Grammy, but he couldn't he couldn't get the gram. He could only so I was named, but I love it. I I even introduce myself a lot of times to children. I just called them. Oh, yeah, I love it. I love it.

Speaker: 5:59

That's really great. Yeah. And and, you know, we have ideas of what our grandchildren will call us, but they end up deciding what they're going to call us regardless of what we wanted, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's usually better.

Speaker 1: 6:14

Yeah, it's right.

Speaker: 6:16

Angie, I'd like for us to spend a few minutes having you just tell our listeners about your your beautiful son Kevin. You know, you and I had a really good conversation a few weeks ago, and I learned a lot about Kevin. And I know that we, as we talk, we both started realizing that that he and our son Ryan had a lot in common. So why don't you just tell our listeners who Kevin is? And I use the present tense purposefully, because we know that Kevin is more alive in heaven today than he was when he was here.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Amen.

Speaker: 6:53

And you know, just tell us some things that about him that you as his mom especially loved and admired, and what what other people uh have said about Kevin, whose lives that he touched.

Speaker 2: 7:07

Well, first of all, thanks for giving me an opportunity to talk about him. I love that. I I'd love to be able to speak his name. You know that. Like speak the name of Ryan. We all as parents, we we don't want to lose that, you know, beautiful word in our mouths, you know.

Speaker: 7:24

So true.

Speaker 2: 7:25

Be able to just even speak his name. But I loved everything about that that guy.

Speaker: 7:30

I mean of course you did.

Speaker 2: 7:32

Of course I did, you know, bad ugly, whatever. But when I think of Kevin, I always think about what's written on his headstone.

Speaker: 7:40

And what is that?

Speaker 2: 7:42

He is a beautiful soul, handsome, gentle, kind, fun, and full of life. A light, a warming fire that leaned against us and touched our very souls. I mean, that would be my summation, you know. That there's so much more. I love and miss everything about him. His outward beauty, he was so handsome. He was eye candy for me. He had a quick wit and a wicked sense of humor, and no one could make me belly laugh like him. I really miss his hugs. When he hugged me from the time he was a toddler, toddler, he would always put his cheek next to mine, and then he would pat me on the shoulder, and he did that all the way up until the last time I saw him. I mean, I really miss his hugs. I admire how he treated people. He was approachable and accepting. And anyone who knew him thought that they were his best friend. That's how he made everyone feel. He leaves a legacy for us of love and laughter. His fiance V called him lovey, and that describes him perfectly. You know, Greg, he's unforgettable and irreplaceable.

Speaker: 8:59

Wow. I would love to have met Kevin. I mean, yeah, that's true. I will one day, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what a what an incredible tribute. Yeah, even if it does come from his mom. And of course, you're going to be slightly biased.

Speaker 1: 9:17

Very.

Speaker: 9:18

Just slightly. Very, very it comes across. I think you guys must have had a very special relationship, just like uh Ryan had with Kathy when he was here. And I love that you shared about the kind of hugs that you always got because that was one of the things that we really, really missed about Ryan when he went to heaven is those bear hugs that he could give.

Speaker 2: 9:42

You just melt. Just melt.

Speaker: 9:45

Yeah, absolutely. Both of us. Yeah. And he was very free with that, just like it sounds like Kevin was.

Speaker 2: 9:52

Yeah, and you know, it's just so interesting because every every parent that I've ever come in contact with when they describe the child that has gone on before them, they all of these children have so much in common. They just in common. Yeah.

Speaker: 10:08

Yeah. Yeah, I've experienced that a number of times as well with with guests that I've had over the last few years. So uh one of the things that I want us to talk uh a little bit about, Angie, is you know, when we lose a child, regardless of how it happened, regardless of their age, yeah, it it really profoundly changes a parent. And what I would like for us to do is to spend a few minutes just talking about how that looked in your life early on and how that looks today. Because I know that there are people out there that are in a fresh season of grief, and they feel like they are there realizing they're not the same person that they used to be. And maybe they're fearful of that. Maybe they're afraid that they're losing themselves and that they won't know themselves. So that's why I would like to kind of dive into that and that that topic of of of identity after you lose a child. What do you think?

Speaker 2: 11:18

Well, my first experience with loss was when I was 12 years old and my dad died of a massive uh heart attack. No, so you know, just the same as Kevin, sudden, suddenly after death. And I grieved alone because my mom thought that she was going to protect us by not sharing her sorrow and her pain. And I intuitively thought that wasn't right. You know, and so I began my journey of who I am now that my dad is gone when I was 12. When Kevin well, I had so many things happen as we talked when we got acquainted, you know, a couple of weeks ago. So many so many things that God brought to me that helped me. I did not lose my identity when Kevin died because I knew after the death of my dad that my identity was in Christ.

Speaker 1: 12:20

Amen.

Speaker 2: 12:21

Yeah, that God had created me and he became my Abba, my daddy, my heavenly father. And so when Kevin died, it wasn't so much about me trying to find myself. It was about Bob and I trying to figure out how we, as a couple who had been struggling for oh goodness, years and years because we're such different people and from such different backgrounds.

Speaker 1: 12:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:51

Who are we? Who are we? Not so much me, but who are we now without this precious child who really was the glue in our family because he was a huge fan of Bob and I, no matter what we were going through. I explained in my book about Bob and I being like puppies, you know, untrained puppies and making messes. And I was thinking this morning about that, using that, because it's true, you know, you get so excited about getting a puppy until you bring him home, right? And then it's like, oh my goodness, you know.

Speaker: 13:27

What have I done?

unknown: 13:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:29

And and that's that's what happened with Bob and I as a couple, being together since we're 15. We were outgrowing each other, we were very close to divorce. And so for me, it was who are we? I knew who I was, and that was never a question because I had done all of that soul work at a very young age. But who who are we now as a couple? And back to a family of four when we had been for 28 years a family of five.

Speaker: 14:01

Yeah, that's that's hard. And that's that's one of those things that that changes. And it it affects your living children, it affects you as individuals, referring to the parents, and it also affects you as a couple. And you know, while it's fresh on my mind, something that you said a moment ago just triggered this thought that would like to share. I've shared it many times, but for the benefit of somebody maybe who's listening for the first time today, very often parents who have lost a child are they either hear it or read it, this statistic that the maj that huge majority, somewhere in the range of 80 to 90 percent of marriages where a child has died, end up in divorce. And I have talked to so many people who have heard that. And what I want to do is to set the record straight. That is absolutely not true. Please hear me on that. It is not true. It was something that was published by an author that had not done any studies. I don't, we nobody knows where she got those statistics because she never was willing to provide any sources. And that was in the 70s. And in the ensuing decades, there have been some studies done. It's I believe three or four. And interestingly enough, that they all concluded by saying that from what they observed through their study, that this divorce rate was actually between 12 and 16 percent, which is significantly lower than the average divorce rate across our culture, Christian and unchristian, but even lower significantly than the divorce rate amongst Christians. So I wanted to set that straight because sometimes if you hear something like that and you're struggling in your marriage to begin with, it can almost be like a self-fulfilling prophecy where it's like, okay, well, we're just doomed, and there's no point in fighting for our marriage anymore. But but do. It's worth it. And believe it or not, if you will, if you'll communicate with your mate and if you will support each other and be there for each other, your marriage can actually become stronger than it ever has before and sweeter than it ever has before. And I know you would agree with that, Angie.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Yes, before I wrote my book, A Mother Like Me, I did some research because I had heard those same statistics and I found out that they were not true. Right actually, actually, the divorce rate is much less than we all might think it would be after such a devastating loss. But for us, we we had came from such different backgrounds. I came from a Christian home. I accepted the Lord at eight years old. Bob knew nothing about God. He he believed that God was the creator, but his you know, God had no heart in his family or his life. But I was so young and impetuous and crazy about him that I knew that God was gonna win his heart. And I was wrong. But the thing is, our children, we were so young and we started a family after our first year of college, and our family was so tight, and that was our glue. The idea of us, the idea of Bob and I kept us together because we knew that that we we were good, but it was just hard, you know. And Kevin's death, which we always thought the kids were the glue that kept us together, and then soon we realized no, it's our commitment, it's our promise for better, for worse, for richer for poor. That's what kept us together. Even though Bob had not accepted the Lord as his savior at the time we were married, or 50 years later, we did keep our vows. Like we we weren't gonna give up. That was it. It was just we and Kevin would have, oh, he would have hated that if his death would have caused us to get a divorce because he was our biggest fan. He believed he believed in Bob and I.

Speaker: 18:41

Well, you know, it's you know, we often think, you know, that parents are their children's biggest fans, but you know, it's so refreshing to hear that that he was y'all's biggest fans.

Speaker 1: 18:56

Yes, he was fan.

Speaker: 18:58

Yeah, I mean that's just you don't hear that very much, but I I love that you shared that because that what a treasure that is to know that that was the case for you guys.

Speaker 2: 19:10

And that was a calling for us, and it was like a commission. It was if this child that we loved so deeply, if he believed in us, how could we feel?

Speaker: 19:22

We that's a great point.

Speaker 2: 19:24

We couldn't. Our older sons, they weren't so sure, you know. They were older when we were going through our messes, and sometimes they thought maybe I should just end it all. But Kevin, no, he fanned that flame. And uh, we were not about we were not about to uh fail him. I mean, for a time, it was really all about him, as it is with everyone who loses a child, you know, for a time this season, it seems to be, you know, they're the epicenter of our lives.

Speaker: 19:54

So yeah, that that is very accurate. Angie, looking back at at those early months and maybe the first couple of years at least, what are some things that you looking back now can say that you believe really helped you to start processing and navigating that grief journey in a healthy way?

Speaker 2: 20:19

Well, it started with my mom, who was the last person to stand next to me at Kevin's graveside when she whispered in my ear, My daughter, my prayer for you is that you will have a holy grief. And I my mother did not talk like that. My mother was young at heart. She was someone who kept life very simple. But I knew that those were words from God, that he was. He was calling me to himself. And I just immediately I gave my grief to him and I allowed him to be a part of it, an integral part of my grief. That was very important to me. Scripture was that's what I clung to. It was an anchor for my soul. I thought it was like Psalm 34, 18, that the Lord is close to the brokenhearted, and you know, that he saves those who have a crushed spirit. So it was God's word that was the lamp unto my feet, the light unto my path. My dad had was a pastor, the word of God was at the center of who we were as a family. And so I immediately went to God's word, not to learn, but because I wanted to cling to his promises. What was available to me? What was available to me in the valley of the shadows of death. And so my mom's prayer, it drew me closer to him immediately. And I knew that I was going to have to connect my heart to the healer. So God's word was really very important to me. Quiet moments spent with him because I had learned that, you know, he whispers and the world is loud. So I was careful, I was careful of the voices that I was listening to. I was very quick to accept the reality of Kevin's death. I didn't try to deny it or avoid it or mask it in any way. My my hubby did, you know, he he went back to work, threw himself into his job, probably drank a little bit too much alcohol from time to time, along with our older sons, you know, and we're Irish and it, you know, there's just, you know, there's that tendency, you know, to want that tasty beverage, you know.

Speaker: 22:36

Yes, very common. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:37

Very common. I didn't do that. I embraced the pain. I gave myself permission to grieve, but I also was determined not to wallow in my grief or spend too long in that valley of shadows.

Speaker: 22:53

That was Yeah, that's a a fine, it's a fine rope, tight rope to walk, isn't it? It's it's really a challenging balancing act to be able to, as you said, to step into the grief and experience it as awful as it feels, because nobody wants to feel that way. I mean, none of us want to suffer, none of us want to deal with pain. So a lot of times we immediately turn to masking that pain in whatever form it it comes in because none of us are ever prepared to lose a child. We don't come with an instruction booklet that tells us what to do or how to handle it. So we're, you know, we feel like we are the Lone Ranger. Yet we're doing something that nobody else understands, and it it's the hardest thing that you have ever experienced. And so what you were saying a few minutes ago was, you know, take that, what you're feeling, what you're experiencing, the impact that it's having, whether it's mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, all of the above. The above. And talk to God about it because He, you know, He wants to be your refuge. He wants to be our refuge. And the the Bible references him countless times as a refuge in the storms of our lives. And if you don't know him that way, if you don't have that relationship, please invite him to be your God and your savior. And and he will, he wants to be, and he will walk with you through that journey. Now, you know, Angie, something else that that happens, and and I think you kind of referenced this a minute ago without actually saying it. Sometimes, you know, when we're grieving, and I I don't know, but I think it probably is more common with those of us who have lost a child. It's so easy to get caught up in or get stuck in grief. And it can become our identity. You know, it it's like, you know, we're that parent who lost a child. Going to be like this for the rest of my life. I'm not gonna ever feel better again. You know, maybe I can survive, but the thought of having a life filled with meaning and purpose and hope again, uh, that can feel mighty elusive. So how do you what are some things that you think are helpful in balancing out the reality of having to walk through the grief and experience it? But being able to move forward, not move on, because we don't, but to move forward. Was there anything that that helps you with that? I know you shared that obviously your relationship with the Lord and spending time in his word were very helpful. Were there other practical things that you did? You know, sometimes people talk about moving, people talk about exercise, they talk about you know just making changes to their you know normal routine. What what would you say to that from your own experience?

Speaker 2: 26:13

Well, from my own experience, none of those things that you've mentioned would have helped.

Speaker: 26:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:19

I mean, it just wouldn't have because it was a gut-wrenching, life-changing experience. And when you lose part of yourself, which I believe as parents we do, it's pretty easy to get stuck. And I think the things that we have to be careful of is that we may feel we have to grieve very long and very hard to honor our child, and even to smile or laugh may cause us to feel guilty and question and question the depths of our love and loyalty to our child. I also I also think we have a tendency to immortalize making them making it more special than anyone else in our life, and of course we know that's just all part of the grief that we're experiencing, and that's normal.

Speaker: 27:08

It is normal.

Speaker 2: 27:09

I think it's especially true if the child is an only child. If we have other children and family members, I knew intuitively from the beginning that they needed to know that I loved them as much as I loved and missed Kevin. I think that was very important. I didn't I took walks, I drove by the beach, I went for coffee, I read devotionals, I met with friends, I did all of those things trying, trying to live some semblance of normalcy. But for me, the loss of my child was a testing, trimming, and refining of my soul. It was soul work for me. I already knew who I was. I was pretty settled on what mattered to me, you know, what was important. It was never exercising, you know, you know, never I was, I just wasn't that kind of activity-driven person. And so what helped me really, Greg, was just embracing the pain and asking those hard questions. And, you know, some unfortunately, after I co-founded Mothers Like Me Grief Ministry back in 2006, I found that so many moms they wanted to wallow in their grief and they were just afraid to embrace life again because they were so consumed by grief. They allowed they allowed grief to take take over their life. And one woman, she was grieving in one of our meetings, and I said, Oh, dear one, you know, how long has it been since you lost your daughter? And she said, 40 years.

unknown: 28:55

Wow.

Speaker 2: 28:56

So she was at 40 years in that valley of shadows. And I just before the podcast, you know, I was connecting with Kathy Lunenberg, you know, who you've in course.

Speaker: 29:08

Yes, I know Kathy.

Speaker 2: 29:10

And I said, I'm just always so anxious about doing these kind of interviews. How do you summarize a whole 23 years of a journey of grief, you know, in in less than an hour? And just be your authentic self. That was good advice. That was my journey. It was just who who am I? Who am I now? Who have I been? Who will I be? And but I wanted to live. I have uh the gift of faith. So for someone like me, that faith just welled up inside of me. It's a gift, you know, it's a gift. And so I never felt I never felt lost. I never felt like there would not be better days ahead. But oh, Greg, like you, I have companion with hundreds of moms like me, and so many of them don't grieve with hope. They just they yeah, they don't.

Speaker: 30:04

That's it's unfortunate, but it's true. And and also to to be fair, there sometimes because of the impact of of grief with a parent, and I think it is I think it happens more so with moms. There is a there is a mental health disorder now that has been recognized and actually put included in the diagnostic handbook for mental health disorders, and it's called prolonged grief disorder. And when we were talking about getting stuck in our grief, if you stay there and if it's you that that's there now, and you feel like you just cannot dig yourself out of this deep dark hole that you're that you're in, or if if it's somebody that you know, perhaps they it would be wise for them to be seen by either a physician or by a counselor just to see if if maybe their grief has actually turned into clinical depression, which can lead to things like that. Because if that's the case, sometimes counseling helps, sometimes the antidepressants or anti-anxiety medications can help. And sometimes the two together, the counseling and the medications, can work and do and have tremendous benefits for us and get us back into a place where we can go get back on the track to healing and the track to being restored again. So I just I wanted to throw that out because I not everybody handles it the same way as others do, and depending upon a lot of other factors in life, things like that can absolutely happen to us.

Speaker 2: 32:00

We can't get through this journey alone, Greg.

Speaker: 32:03

No.

Speaker 2: 32:04

I think that's the the the thing that my most concern I have for, especially moms new in their grief, and I'm I'm connected to a few right now, is you can't do this in isolation. You've got to have help. And also the fact is that people, especially moms, really do die of a broken heart. It is a sudden surge of hormones, it's traumatic. I know that I went through PTSD a few times in my life because of traumatic deaths of people I love. And we do have to ask for help and we've got to companion with someone. We have to come along. But you know, I think more importantly, there has to be a desire to live.

Speaker: 32:46

Yes, absolutely. And and sometimes I think it's good if we if we just remember, after all, this is what my child would want. They would want me to go on. They can, you know, we can be the ones to carry their name forward where they can't. And we can, by sharing our stories, by talking about our children and inviting others into that journey. It's a way that our children can continue to touch other people's lives after they have gone, after, after we've lost them. It's a privilege that that we can have as a as a parent. So it's just sometimes it's a matter of of making very difficult choices. It hurts sometimes to move forward. Sometimes it hurts to have to start focusing more on life than than on the what we've lost. And sometimes we can can kind of get hung up staying, as you were referencing a minute ago, Angie, feeling like we're somehow we're abandoning our child or we're betraying our child if we start feeling better and and moving forward. But it's that's not the case. You know, it's just it that's not reality. Sometimes that's those voices that we want to avoid listening to. You know, if you hear it, just you know, again, give that to the Lord, but don't listen to it because it can it can really, really mess with your with your mind and your heart. So you said something a minute ago that's that's so important, and that's about not going through your grief journey alone. Let's let's just spend a couple of minutes talking about the the value of doing your grief in the context of fellowship with other people. Because sometimes that feels very unappealing in that those early weeks and months, you I don't want to be around anybody else. I don't want to have to explain it. I don't want them looking at me like I'm pitiful, you know, and the the list goes on and on. But what we don't understand is that if we stay there and become isolated, it can be a real detriment to our healing journey. What would you say to that, Angie?

Speaker 2: 35:11

Well, I think what I said just a little bit ago is first of all, you have to want to live. You have to want, you have to want to truly live again. And this is all so personal, Greg. You know, I'm an extrovert by nature. Other people are introverts. You know, you mentioned I'm an open book. Yes. So it has a lot to do with personality, has a lot to do with our backgrounds. I went through two and a half years of counseling when I thought Bob and I were gonna get divorced, and it was two and a half years before Kevin died. I think it's just a matter of how much we want to live, how important life is to us. And I think the tenderness, the gentleness, the compassion of other people, the understanding of other people is so important. Some of my relationships uh that I thought would be lifelong, turn it ended, they ended because the people could hurt for me, but they somehow couldn't hurt with me.

Speaker: 36:14

Yeah, it's unfortunate, but it happens.

Speaker 2: 36:17

So it but we there are people out there, there are options for us, there's help out there, and it just takes courage. It's like doing this podcast. I would have much rather, you know, we just talk and it just be you and I, but I but like Joshua 1.9 says, be brave, be very, very brave. So I just think it's individual. I think they were all people that come from our place of origin, and that has affected us as people. And for me, that's why I say grief was a journey of my heart and my soul. But I didn't feel that way at the beginning. It was other people speaking to me, you know, encouraging me, uplifting me, walking with me, you know, letting me just cry. It it was being in fellowship with others who have hurt and who grieve, but who have come out of the shadows into the light again. I think it's personal, but I just would encourage anyone that's feeling that there's no way out of this, that that child was the epicenter of my life, to just not listen to that, like you're saying. Just no, it's not true. There are better days ahead.

Speaker: 37:41

There is how very true. And if if you're listening today and you're not one of those people who has lost a child like us, but you're in the life of somebody who has, I would encourage you, be one of those people that Angie was just describing who simply comes alongside. You don't have to have magic words, you don't have to show up and and quote scripture, you don't have to show up and and say something that you think is going to fix them. You you can't fix them, so I'll just let you off the hook. We're they're not a project that needs to be fixed. They simply need a friend. And sometimes the best gift you can give us is just a gift of your presence.

Speaker 2: 38:30

But I think the biggest help for me was to be in the company of those that understood I didn't have to explain a thing. And that's why I encourage everyone to get to a support group, you know, somewhere, somehow, where they're gonna understand what you're feeling, so you don't have to explain it, but you can express, express the grief. That's the most important thing to me. Being able to express it without judgment, without and I don't want to be fixed, you know. That happened to me. Came alongside me and started preaching to me, and I said, I know the you know, I said, I know the word better than you do. It's not you I need you to preach to me. I need you to understand. I'm in the valley of the shadow of death. Do you want do you understand? And you know, people that haven't been through it, they can't.

Speaker: 39:25

No, they can't. And and the truth of the matter is we really wouldn't want them to understand when we stop and think about it because it means they would have had to have been here too.

Speaker 2: 39:37

That's right, Greg.

Speaker: 39:38

And we wouldn't want that for anybody. Angie, I want you to share something that you and I talked about several weeks ago when we we first had a phone conversation, and then I later read in your book the first one that you wrote, A Mom Like Me. I think that's the name of it, right? Mother or a Mother Like Me.

unknown: 39:58

Yeah.

Speaker: 39:58

You shared with me that a couple of years before you guys lost Kevin, that you had a dream, and it was it was a I mean, you shared it with such raw emotion in the book, and it it was, I mean, it was just an incredible thing. So just you take a couple of minutes and share with our listeners what that dream was about. Okay.

Speaker 2: 40:24

So I believe it was a gracious foretelling from God of what was going to happen to prepare me somehow for the death of our son. God knows me intimately, and since I was a very young girl, he's given me dreams and visions to reveal something about what's going on in the unseen and what may be coming in the future. So I dreamed our family. was on a vintage clipper ship and I lived on the east coast as a little girl and I was just in oh just what is the word just it encapsulated into this idea of of of a clipper ship being on it you know that the captain my husband you know that maritime just that whole maritime event you know was just yeah just imprinted in me so there I was on a clipper ship with my family in glassy sleep seas with large billowing white sails only outmatched by the beauty of the blue skies and white clouds all around us it was just exhilarating and then suddenly just suddenly very dark clouds formed overhead and a violent storm surrounded and engulfed the ship I found myself hunkered down in the lower level of the ship and it felt almost like Jonah in the whale I just felt like I was in the belly of the whale I've never felt so afraid and alone I was in absolute darkness no one was with me and I was sure I was going to die. The next morning the storm had you know ended and I got up I was so weak from the night before and I climbed up the steps and got up on the upper deck and Bob and Eric and David were there and I rushed to them and I was so thankful that they were okay and and I looked around and I said you know where's Kevin? Where is he? And you know Bob said we don't know we can't find him and I said well you have to go find him you have to go find him you have to go right now. So they had looked on the ship and so they climbed into one of the lifeboats and they took off and then you know they came back and Bob said honey you know we found Kevin come with us so I just had this imposing sense of fear and dread because why were we getting off the ship and getting into a boat in the open sea to go find Kevin and so what happened was as we rode in silence and came to ashore and we got out and Bob led me to two grassy knolls and on one of the knolls was Kevin his body as a boy little boy and on the other grassy knoll was the body of Kevin as the young man that he was and what that did was it positioned me as to how I was going to grieve Kevin which I did I grieved the baby from conception to birth to infancy to being a toddler you know the little boy that I adored and then finally the young man that he had become yeah wow that that is just such a profound dream and you know you don't understand things like that when they happen but in retrospect you can look back and as you said earlier it's like God was preparing you uh for something that you had no idea about but he did and and in his love and in his graciousness he gave you that and then after it happened you you were able to see that it was also it also revealed a mother's fear for watching her youngest son just give himself away and and having a fear that he was giving himself away and also he he was very social and he he drank a lot he was in the restaurant business and you know 12 o'clock at night you know he and his staff are you know they're they're there you know having tasty beverages again like I said we're Irish and there's a great deal of emphasis on on the tasty beverages you know so I know that it was gracious of God to give me that dream because I was able to address my fears first of all that I could lose any of my sons any of and that's a fear I think we all as as you know parents have like oh what would I ever do if I ever lost you know one of my children. Oh yeah but then it was gracious of God for that dream to be so clear and for me to be able to look back and say he knows me he knows what I need when I need it I needed that bit of preparation and my daughter in law had a similar dream.

Speaker: 45:42

So God was God was preparing both of us as as the women the matriarchs in our family to be somewhat equipped and not caught off guard when it really when it happened when my great fear you know came to be well thank you for sharing that with us and and for sharing that with your readers too and you know we've already referenced the one book that that you wrote and it was your first book again a mother like me but then you went on to write a second book and I think the title of that one is Another Mother Like Me or Mothers Like Me.

Speaker 2: 46:24

Mothers like me they're short a mother like me a story of faith hope and love and loss is my personal right your story. My story and then mothers like me are a compilation or an anthology of 19 moms their stories their short stories and I I think it's because of companioning with hundreds of grieving moms you know since 2002 and I I just thought that that was so important you know to share their stories. It was a wonderful experience it we went so smoothly and all the stories are heart wrenching but they all they all have a happy ending. They they all end in a happy ending.

Speaker: 47:07

Yeah I love that and I I love that you that you took the time to be able to to take their stories and put them together because I think stories connect us at a heart level where information doesn't information's information it's knowledge and you can read lots of things about about grief and about the grief journey but it's another when you're able to connect with with someone else's story who's lived it.

Speaker 2: 47:41

So you you connect more at a heart level and I think it means more and I think you I think it makes more of an impact so you know if if you're interested you can find Angie's books I'm sure on all the major book platforms Amazon and all the others right yes yes that's correct and and it has to be you have to do the search either by my author name which is Angie Ford Green or by the entire title which is a Mother Like Me a Story of Faith Hope and Love and Loss Mothers Like Me stories of Faith Hope and Love and Loss but available on Amazon you know Barnes and Noble Thrift Books it's it's a it's out there it's everywhere you know sure it's you have no problem finding it and in libraries you know if you like it in the library you can request that you know I was thinking Greg as difficult as as it has been to live without Kevin I often think back about what his uncle Rod said at the memorial service Kevin learned the secret of life too soon how to love and be loved in return. And then his brother Eric's words sum up my response to Kevin's death the tragedy is not that Kevin died at 28 years old the tragedy would have been that he was never born at all and I encourage your listeners to sit on that for a while. Is the tragedy really that a child died we all are gonna die you know it's not if it's when and really who's next isn't that true but but would love that yeah but would you have not wanted that child to be born because you would not have wanted to go through the suffering yeah that's yeah I you know we nobody wants to experience that but you know what a treasure when we really stop and evaluate it what a treasure that God shared them with us for however many years, months or days or hours that it was and so we have that treasure that nobody can take away from us.

Speaker: 50:02

Death can't take it away because we get to carry that for the rest of our lives. So thank you so much for sharing that those were really good words that that he shared. Angie thank you so much for giving us a glimpse into the heart of a mom who has been on a grief journey for some time now. Twenty three 23 years yeah yep and it doesn't matter how long it's been no you know that grief journey is something that we carry through the rest of our lives but as Angie has said so many times today hang on it won't your grief won't always be like it is today. It won't always feel like it does today there is a brighter hope there's a brighter future and there is joy and peace in life again. So just hang on, lean into the Lord and let other people own your journey with you. Thank you for all that you do for other grieving parents Angie and again thank you for being our guest today.

Speaker 2: 51:11

Well God bless you Greg and thank you for your invitation my privilege.

Speaker: 51:17

For those of you who are listening we Angie and I hope that you have enjoyed this episode. We hope that somewhere in it you found some hope and encouragement maybe some comfort uh if you if you did uh there is a link in Angie's episode summary where you can click and share your thoughts we would also love it if you would click the link to Apple Podcasts and leave a review either of Angie's episode or of just the podcast in general. I will also include a link to for Angie's books in the episode summary in case you didn't get a chance to write that down. So again as always we thank you for listening we appreciate you as listeners for our podcast and we will look forward to seeing you back in two weeks.